36 | Organized Living + Practical Minimalism with Shira Gill
36 | Organized Living + Practical Minimalism with Shira Gill
In today's episode, I’m excited to welcome someone who has been an inspiration to me in my journey as a Clutter Coach.
Shira Gill is a globally recognized home-organizing expert, bestselling author, and speaker. Her process and tool kit applies to everyone regardless of budget and lifestyle. It has been spotlighted in numerous publications, including Vogue, Better Homes & Gardens, HGTV, Harper's Bazaar, and more!
Are you ready to get inspired by Shira’s unique and inclusive organizing techniques? Then definitely check out Shira's bestselling book Minimalista, and her newest, Organized Living.
Tune in for these key topics Shira and I cover during this episode such as:
Organization as a form of self-care
Shame and internalizing feelings of wrong-doing associated with clutter
Her signature 15-minute win
Shira's five-step process outlined in Minimalista
Shira's takeaways from her new book Organized Living
How Shira sees organization as a tool, not a means of perfection
GUEST INFO:
Shira Gill, Globally Recognized Home Organizing Expert, Bestselling Author, and Speaker
Website: Shira Gill Home
Instagram: @shiragill
Substack: The Minimalista Edit with Shira Gill
Book: Organized Living by Shira Gill
Book: Minimalista by Shira Gill
MENTIONED:
Dalys Macon of @blackgirlswhoorganize and @divineorder4u
Ashley Jones of @ashleyjoneshatcher
Xiomara Romero of @Lillys_organizing
Jennifer Du Bois of @organizedbyjend
RESOURCE:
Curious to learn how Clutter Coaching is different than in-home organizing?
Download my Clarity Guide + join my email community.
FEATURED ON THE SHOW:
Come say hello on Instagram
Follow me on Facebook
See what I’m up to on LinkedIn
Join my workshops.
LIKE THIS EPISODE?
I invite you to share, rate, review and follow my show. Also, join the conversation by connecting with me on Instagram @apleasantsolution.
-
Intro: Welcome to A Pleasant Solution, Embracing An Organized Life. I'm your host, certified life coach, professional organizer, and home life expert, Amelia Pleasant Kennedy and I help folks permanently eliminate clutter in their homes and lives. On this podcast we'll go beyond the basics of home organization to talk about why a clutter-free mindset is essential to an aligned and sustainable lifestyle. If you're someone with a to-do list, if you're managing a household and if you're caring for others, this podcast is for you. Let's dive in.
Amelia: Welcome to Episode 36, “Organized Living and Practical Minimalism with Shira Gill.” Shira Gill is a globally recognized home organizing expert, bestselling author and speaker. She's inspired thousands of people to clear clutter from their homes and lives and has developed a process and a toolkit that applies to anyone regardless of budget, space, or lifestyle. Shira is the author of Minimalista and Organized Living and has been featured in 100 plus print and media outlets, including Vogue, Dwell, Better Homes and Gardens, House Beautiful, Architectural Digest, Dominoes, Forbes, Goop, Harper's Bazaar, HGTV Today, In Style, Parents, Real Simple and The New York Times. I encourage you to listen in, celebrate the launch of her new book with us, and implement at least one takeaway you'll learn within the week ahead. Make sure you're following Shira for inspiration and join her community too.
My guest today needs no introduction, yet before I have her say hello, I'd like to share a brief story. When I first started my in-home organizing business and was considering adding a coaching element, a friend and colleague sent me a podcast episode featuring Shira Gill. During that interview, Shira shared all about how she blends the skills of organizing and coaching and I was floored. She was the example and inspiration I was looking for. So welcome Shira. Tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, even though I'm sure they already know who you are.
Shira: Sure. Well thank you. That's such a fun story and I had no idea, so that's super cool. For those who aren't familiar with my work, I am a values-based organizing expert, an author and coach. I merge home organizing, life coaching and minimalism with the mission of just helping people clear both physical and mental clutter. And I've written two books now. My first book, Minimalista breaks down my toolkit and process to help people edit and organize and style their homes. And my brand new book, Organized Living showcases the homes of other organizers all around the world and shares their tips and their inspiration.
Amelia: Which is absolutely amazing because people think that we are somehow different, that we are unicorns. Our homes must be spectacular and special. And you show in this book both the real side and the real humans as well as their beautiful spaces.
Shira: Well, that was my goal. I feel like people think that there's this kind of cookie cutter, one size fits all version of home organizing that's become very popular, like all the rainbows and the plastic bins. And I wanted to show there are a million and 10 ways to be organized. So I found people very purposefully in this book who lived in tiny studio apartments. There's one woman in an Airstream trailer and really everything in between and people who are zero wasters and sustainability experts and people who love style and design. So I just wanted to show the full range of what organizing can look like. It doesn't have to be the one thing that you maybe see on social media or on tv. It can look any way you want it to. So that was the mission, was just to show kind of the breadth and depth of what that can look like.
Amelia: I love it and I had a chance to preview an advance copy and what I will say is, yes, you achieved that diversity of spaces and ways to be organized. So I want to thank you for that. I find that is very valuable and the more we can share with people that it is not one size fits all the more folks feel seen and heard in their own homes. So I want to take a minute in the introduction you were vulnerable and shared a bit about your home life growing up and I'd love for you to share for the listeners who haven't gotten a peek at the book yet, but yeah, can pick it up soon, that did organization look like for you during your childhood?
Shira: Yeah, so I think organization really became a method of self-care for me as a young child. I was an only child of divorce and my parents had a very brutal custody battle and it was not a seamless, lovely divorce. And so they ended up getting houses 10 blocks away from each other. And I had a kind of crazy joint custody schedule that was determined by the courts where I went back and forth every other day. And so I kind of had to drag my things back and forth and it was very stressful. And not having siblings or local family, I felt kind of isolated. And so I think unknowingly I found organization and just making my space feel good. It felt like a way of claiming control and creating calm when my actual environment around me and my family structure felt like it was out of control.
Shira: And so I think it was this thing that I just internalized, I didn't even think of it as organizing so much as arranging my things in a way that felt good. And that was something that kind of then extended when I was a teenager. It was like I could always walk into a room and see the potential in a space and see the clutter in the way. And so I would always kind of beg my girlfriends to let me help them clean out their closets or tidy their desks. It was just something that felt fun and cathartic to me. I never ever thought of it as a potential career option. So really, I mean it was not until I was in my thirties, well into several other careers that I discovered that potentially this could be a career.
Amelia: So two things that you shared there really stood out to me beyond your story and your home life. The first is that there was a feeling that was created when you organized your space or arranged your objects. And I talk a lot with clients about that emotional component in how everything we do results in a feeling that we might be after or don't do as a result. The second part of what you said was going into friends' spaces and asking to organize their things was exciting for you.
Shira: Totally.
Amelia: I think a lot of potential clients when they think about bringing an organizer in their home, there's layers of shame or discomfort with someone coming in to see their space, but they don't know that we actually love the puzzle of the decluttering process. We love the puzzle of bringing order to the space that is not.
Shira: Yeah. It's almost like we see spaces through a different lens, like we're wearing different glasses. And so I feel like the client has the glasses on of the shame and the overwhelm and the judgment and then we come in and we see the potential and the possibility and we get excited to roll up our sleeves and create something. So yeah, I think it's a good point because I know, I mean, I've even had friends who were like, you are not allowed in my house. You're just going to judge me. And I'm like, there's no upside in me judging you and I have no interest in doing so.
Amelia: Totally, totally. So we are both coaches and there's a beauty to transforming and simplifying spaces, and there's a beauty to transforming and simplifying someone's inner life, which is kind of the result that happens through this process of working with you. So as an expert who has inspired thousands of people across the globe to declutter their homes and their lives, talk to me a little bit about the mental blocks, the emotional themes that you've seen emerge around folks' inner lives.
Shira: Yeah, I mean a big one I just see crop up is shame. And I think people internalizing the state of their homes as, “I've done something wrong. I am flawed. I don't know why I can't keep up with this. I should be able to manage this.” I work with a lot of high achievers and very successful people who operate on such a high level in other parts of their life that there's also a sense of imposter syndrome of like, “If only people knew what a wreck I was behind the front door.” So that has come up a lot is just this sense of shame and this idea of like, I should be able to have my house in better shape. I should be able to not make shopping mistakes or stop over consuming. And as you know as a life coach it's like there is no benefit to beating yourself up to thinking those negative thoughts.
It's not going to get you closer to what you want. It's just going to leave you frankly feeling terrible. And so a lot of the work that I do without it being literally sitting and coaching is helping people shift their thinking. And I do that mainly through action. I actually don't spend a lot of time with people coaching and trying to shift their thoughts. I just say like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's roll up our sleeves and like get to work. And then it's almost like by taking action and seeing change, they start to think differently and then feel differently. So I like to help people I guess from the inside out and the outside in, I find really interesting.
Amelia: I love that you shared that because I do think that there's value in having a second set of hands in the home and just getting started and saying, okay, here's how I see things, here's how we could make it different, and what do you feel as a result of this work that we're doing together? And I often do more of the conversation, more of the untangling because I primarily work virtually, but I love that when you're side by side with a client that they get the best of both.
Shira: Yeah, it's fun. I mean it's probably because I'm such an impatient person, which is something I need to work on, but I'm so results oriented that I feel like often we're just in our own way mentally. And instead of analyzing all of it, if you just roll up your sleeves and spend 15 minutes cleaning out a drawer, you're going to start to see yourself as a person who's capable of organizing. And it's going, like that action is going to shift your thoughts naturally and how you feel.
Amelia: Which is why your 15 minute win was so successful. For sure.
Shira: Yeah. So fun and that came from me being overwhelmed, the story of the 15 minute win, which is just like a tool I use with clients and in my own life, is I actually had to write a keynote for the Life Coach School and I hadn't done a keynote at the time and I was so nervous and anxious about it and I just kept not sitting down to write. And I finally said to myself, alright, all you have to do is 15 minutes. You don't have to write the whole thing, you don't have to make it perfect. And for me, that kind of 15 minute challenge was minimal enough that it got me out of paralysis and into sitting down and writing. And then once I was over that mental block, I was like, oh, I can do this. And so I started trying it with my clients where I would see their eyes glazing over and looking around the room and it's so overwhelming. And I would say, you know what, we're setting a timer for 15 minutes. Let's see if we can just clear this one shelf. And of course they would clear it in like five minutes and then they would be out of overwhelm. So it's a great little very easy hack you can really use for anything. I use it for doing my taxes too.
Amelia: I love that. We just have to get started.
Shira: Who wants to do their taxes? You just have to get started. That's always the hardest part.
Amelia: It is. And just to say I'm sure that keynote created a secondary impact as well for all the folks who were out there listening because you chose to just get started.
Shira: Yes, yes, absolutely.
Amelia: So, we're here to celebrate the launch of your newest book, yet the first one, Minimalista showed us all how to create a functional and streamlined home. I would love for you to tell us a little bit about your five step process that is detailed in that book, Minimalista.
Shira: It'll be fun to talk about on your podcast in particular because it is a blend of life coaching and organizing. So I have this simple five step process that came out of years and years of organizing people's homes and realizing that I really was repeating the same process, just customizing it for each client. And so I know that this process works for anyone in any space. Whether you're doing a junk drawer or a studio apartment or a huge house, you can use this. So step one is to clarify and that is kind of the life coaching section of the process where you just have to determine before you organize anything, why do you want to get organized? What are the results you're looking for? Why will they make a difference in your life? Like what is the compelling reason for doing this, and what is the specific result you are after?
And that's really crucial because I think if you don't have that foundation, really you're just moving piles around. There's nothing anchoring the work. So whenever I work with a client or even when I'm doing a project in my own home, I always like to start with just getting very clear, “What are we doing? Why are we doing it?” Once you've determined that, step two is to edit, and editing is really where I spend the bulk of my time with a client. I think it's interesting, I've always felt like the term professional organizer is a bit of a misnomer. I feel like I'm more of a professional editor. And that the bulk of what I do is really coaching people around decision making. What are you keeping? What are you recycling? What are you shredding? What do you want to give to your mother? And it's those decisions that happen during the editing process.
So step one is to get clear, step two is to strip away all of the things that are really just clutter that are not providing value in your home or life or getting you closer to that goal. So a little tiny example would be, if your goal is to turn your junk drawer to transform it from just like a heap of junk to a functional utility drawer, then during the editing process you're taking every single thing out of that drawer. You're touching each thing and you're deciding, “Does this thing belong in this drawer? Does it belong somewhere else? Or does it not belong in my house at all? And then am I recycling it? Am I throwing it in the trash? Am I donating it? Am I giving it to someone?” So this is the most overwhelming part of the process for people. And it's why I would say it's like a 90% of the organizing process is that editing, it's making those hard decisions, deciding what are you keeping, what are you letting go of? Do you like your reasons? Are you getting closer to your goal?
Once you've made all of those decisions, you're left with maybe a much smaller pile. Often with my clients, it's like 50% of what we started with. And then there's the organizing process. And for me organization is really simple. It's just grouping similar things together and making sure that each thing or category of thing has a designated home. So if you've done the work of slogging through the junk drawer and you've gotten rid of all the receipts and the gum wrappers and the random things, maybe you're left with a pile of pens and a pile of sticky notes and some keys and some gum. So now you're pretty much organized. You've grouped all of those things, you know where they go.
And then the next step is to elevate and that's a purely optional step. It's one that I really like because I love design and styling and aesthetics. So basically in the case of a junk drawer, maybe you want to treat yourself to some beautiful wooden drawer dividers and you want to put those in and then you want to kind of artfully arrange your pens and your scissors and make it look lovely so that when you open that drawer, it's like a treat. So that's kind of the part of the process I feel like clients always are after and I'm like, no, no, no, we got to wait, it's the cherry on top.
Amelia: Like they want to do that first, right?
Shira: They always want to do, can we go to The Container Store about all the things? Yeah. So I'm like, no, no, no. That is really the last step. After we've edited, after we've organized, then we get to look at do you really need a bin or a basket or new hangers. And so that's kind of the fun step. And then the final step is just maintain. So I think of it as life isn't static. You don't do any process in your life once and set it and forget it. You can organize every room in your house perfectly, but if you have kids or partners or dogs or mother-in-laws who buy you gifts, things are going to come in and out of your house. And so maintenance is around setting up systems and processes and habits so that you can stay on top of things and that could be as simple as doing an annual cleanout or a seasonal edit or even something like I have a donation bag in all of our closets, so as people grow out of things, they can just toss them in the bag and then when the bag's full, we drop it off. So it's a way of making sure that things don't pile up again and get out of control, but that you have little systems and habits in place to keep things running smoothly.
Amelia: Yeah. And I like to look at that through the lens of trusting oneself. You've done all of this tremendous work. The decision making was a bit challenging, but you made it through. And the maintenance is trusting, okay, now I have the skills, I can go back and cycle through this process, but it will essentially be much quicker because you've done that initial hard work.
Shira: Exactly. And I find, I mean it's interesting because I often think when people hire a professional organizer, they think like, well, and then I'll be organized, The End. But sadly, you actually have to maintain those systems and you have to put the coat on the coat hook and put the shoes in the shoe basket. And so I think of it as like there's volume control, there's system implementation, and then there's the habits at the end. And you could get rid of the volume and you could set up the most brilliant systems. But if you don't implement habits to maintain the systems you're going to be back where you started. So it really is a marriage of those three things, of paring down the volume so you have less to manage, maintaining and creating systems that are going to work for you and your family. And then implementing small daily habits. Even if that's just when I walk in the door, I'm not going to dump things anymore. I'm going to take three seconds and put the mail in the mail basket and the shoes and the shoe bin. So that makes a big difference.
Amelia: Yeah, I think that that is a huge point that is often overlooked because that few seconds where you're putting the mail in the mail basket or the shoes in the shoe bin save you so much time and energy later.
Shira: Totally. It's like the investment in your future self. Like planning for the day ahead. You're then going to wake up and your day is going to run more smoothly because you put in that work.
Amelia: I love it. So you've done it again. I mean Minimalista was the first one and your new book, Organized Living showcases real homes of organizing experts. You really travel the globe: Mexico City, Paris, New York, London, Lisbon and I want to give a shout-out to a few of my friends and colleagues that are in the book. There's Dalys Macon of D’vine Order and the Founder of Black Girls Who Organize, which is actually another way that our paths crossed. And you mentioned the Airstream, Xiomara Romero of Lilly's Organizing. Ashley Jones and Jennifer Dubois of Organized with Jen D. Oh my gosh. It made me so happy to see them all in there.
Shira: They're the best, they're also the best humans. So it was such a joy to interview them and tour their homes and include them.
Amelia: Yes. Oh, the photography as well is just beautiful. So what are some of your top takeaways from writing and producing this book, which is different from the first?
Shira: Yeah, I mean it's interesting because in some ways it confirmed, you know I have a really strong minimalist bent and philosophy and I made it a point of trying to find people for the book who did not consider themselves minimalists, who even considered themselves maximalist or had bigger homes. But what was interesting is that every single organizer I interviewed kind of commented on the over-consumption issue that we have as a culture and society, especially the organizers living in the US. I would say that was less so for the European organizers or the organizer I met in Mexico City. But really in the US it was like every person was commenting on the sheer volume of stuff that they come across every day in their work and how it actually informed them that when they went home, they just wanted to see clean surfaces and clear spaces.
And even for the people who kind of had defined themselves as maximalist, there was this sense of like, but I want to simplify, I want to consume less, like it just all feels like too much. So that was kind of like a big theme of my research and my interviews. And then of course there were all of these just like fun little tiny hacks and tips that I outlined in the book but I'll share a few that kind of stood out. Like one, it's so funny because folding sheets is the bane of my existence. I'm not someone who's good at folding that bottom fitted sheet and it's very off brand. People assume I would be great at it and no. And so I met several organizers who said, oh, well I just have one set of really nice sheets and I pop them in the wash and I put them straight back on the bed. And so no linen closet, no storage space for linens. It was mind blowing for me, as simple as that sounds, like you never fold sheets.
Amelia: I love it. They'd figured out a hack to just skip the step.
Shira: Totally! And some of these people lived in very tiny homes, so it was born out of necessity, but others were just like, oh no, I just don't like folding. And it's so easy to pop them in the wash and throw them straight back on. And so I thought that was really brilliant. Another kind of fun theme was just I found that organizers really loved turning anything into a station. And so I saw a coffee and tea station, a smoothie station, a snack station, a jewelry making station, like anything you can think of, like a health and wellness station with vitamins and smoothies. And so I just thought that was kind of a fun way to think about things is paying attention in your home. Like is there something you enjoy doing all the time that you could turn into a station?
Amelia: I love that, what comes up for me is that step you mentioned of elevating. It's like organizers, we elevate zones into a station. We're like it's gotta be better than a zone. It's got to be a whole station.
Shira: A whole station. You need a tray, you need hooks. I mean it was very funny, but I found it very appealing and kind of a fun way of ritualizing the things that we do every day. One other one is that it's from our mutual friend Ashley Jones, she unboxes her games and puzzles. And so you know how those games, like they're in the cardboard boxes that are always breaking the seams and kind of busted and sad. So she just created a system and used a drawer in her media cabinet to corral all of the game boards and then above that decanted the puzzle pieces and the game pieces into beautiful clear canisters and labeled them. And so she said as a result, she actually played games more often because like friends would come over and see in the living room and go, oh my God, let's play Monopoly or whatever they saw. And it was a way of elevating these games that she owned and didn't want to rebuy, but were not looking so great.
Amelia: Yeah, I love that because it just brings an aspect of fun and excitement and joy to adulthood just through organizing.
Shira: It's the little things.
Amelia: Totally. I love it. Anything else you would like to share about the new book?
Shira: I mean, I would just say as I kind of described, I think there is this big misconception about organizing that it's all about perfection, it's striving for this kind of unattainable perfection. And really my goal with doing this book and showcasing so many different types of organizers and different types of homes was to say organization is really a tool and it's a tool that you can use any way that you want. It can look any way that you want and it's completely customizable. So for some people, they just want to find their keys. They don't need to have their home be photo ready or editorial. And so there's no shame in having systems that are cobbled together out of old shoe boxes or things you already own that you repurpose. Like a mason jar or a jam jar can be a great vessel. So I just want to sort of take out that pressure of like, in order to get organized, it has to be picture perfect or color-coded or alphabetized. I don't color code or alphabetize anything in my home, I just don't have the interest or the bandwidth. It's all about simplifying your life and creating ease. And so that's what I kind of want to leave people with is that idea of like, this is all about just elevating your life and making it easier. It's not about adding something difficult and overwhelming.
Amelia: I love that you shared that because part of what I help clients with is really defining their own sense of organized outside of the standards and expectations that we have absorbed and giving someone permission to just say your sense of organization, if it works, if you can find your keys and get exactly what you need is exactly the right way for you.
Shira: A hundred percent, yes.
Amelia: I love that. So as we close, I would love to know what's one creative way that you employ organization now as an adult, maybe outside of the things that we would expect from a professional organizer.
Shira: Oh yeah, I love that question. I mean, I've been thinking a lot about life organization as opposed to just home organization. And I think organization is all about claiming your values. And so for me a big value is travel. It's something that I was like so nervous I was going to lose when I became a mom. And so one way I'm kind of employing organization is I've decided that I am going to organize a trip to a new country every year and take my girls somewhere that they've never been and somewhere I've never been each year before they go off to college. So it's something that's kind of exciting and fun for all of us. I definitely crave travel more than anyone in my family. I have a family of homebodies, but they're game as long as I plan it. So that's been kind of just a fun thing I've been implementing. And also just thinking about, “How do I get little bursts of travel into my life?” even if it's just taking a one day road trip or a little local excursion, either by myself or with my family, but thinking about, kind of claiming that value through organization.
Amelia: Yes. And it really is a nice way of combining what you want, what lights you up internally and what makes sense for everyone else. So I can totally see how that's a win for you and a win for your girls as well.
Shira: Yeah, it's been delightful. Our next place that we're targeting is Thailand. So I have tons of research to do and it's so far away, but it's like one of those things that sometimes the anticipation of something is almost more fun than the thing itself. So I just find it's always fun to have, like a big long-term goal. And for me that's always going to be travel.
Amelia: Well, I know we will see beautiful videos of your packing in preparation for the next trip because you always do great packing videos.
Shira: I can't wait.
Amelia: Well, Organized Living is now available. I want to direct everyone to your website, which will be in the show notes, but like links to buy are there.
Shira: Perfect.
Amelia: And you have all sorts of resources available on your site as well. Courses, signature coaching, consults.
Shira: Yes. I hope people take advantage of that. I've been blogging and writing and sharing resources for nearly 15 years and I have a free newsletter and have tips and hacks and inspiration that really all with the goal of helping people kind of declutter their homes and lives and get closer to the things they care about. So yeah, that's all linked up on my website.
Amelia: And it's shiragill.com.
Shira: You got it, just my name.com.
Amelia: Amazing. Amazing. Well, it was such a pleasure and an honor to speak with you today.
Shira: You too. This was such a treat. Thanks for having me.
Amelia: Hey, wait, before you go, I'd love to share a special giveaway contest available for the month of October 2023. I'll be giving away 5, yes 5 copies of Shira's new book, Organized Living. All you have to do is leave a review of this podcast, click on the link in the show notes of this episode for all the details on how to enter to win. There's no purchase necessary, one entry per review, and the giveaway ends Monday, October 30th, 2023 at 11:59 PM Eastern. The drawing will occur at noon Eastern on the 31st. Can't wait to see you win. Thanks for listening and talk to y'all soon.
