97 | Valuing Care with Tara Ryan
97 | Valuing Care with Tara Ryan
Join in as I sit down with Tara Ryan, a passionate advocate for equity and care, who transitioned from a successful career in software sales to becoming a certified professional coach and activist for parents' rights.
Tara shares her personal story, from her childhood fascination with organization to her current endeavors in helping organizations develop better policies to support their employees .
She discusses the importance of making care visible and valued in society, the intersection of work and home life, and the critical role men play in these conversations. Tara is actively involved in care work herself, and she shines a light on these crucial issues through her Substack newsletter, "Valuing Care."
Tune in now to be inspired and learn how you can contribute to this vital movement.
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Tara Ryan, certified professional coach, leadership development consultant, Fair Play Certified Facilitator and activist for parents rights | Website | Instagram | Substack
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Intro: Welcome to A Pleasant Solution, Embracing An Organized Life. I'm your host, certified life coach, professional organizer, and home life expert, Amelia Pleasant Kennedy and I help folks permanently eliminate clutter in their homes and lives. On this podcast will go beyond the basics of home organization to talk about why a clutter-free mindset is essential to an aligned and sustainable lifestyle. If you're someone with a to-do list, if you're managing a household and if you're caring for others, this podcast is for you. Let's dive in.
Amelia: Welcome to Episode 97, “Valuing Care with Tara Ryan.” After 11 years in software sales where she led and scaled teams, Tara decided to pursue her dream of entrepreneurship. Her passion for deep self-reflection, growth and equity, drove her to become a certified professional coach, leadership development consultant, Fair Play certified facilitator, and activist for parents' rights. Terra works to create radically inclusive and equity minded environments where everyone is encouraged to trust themselves and show up authentically.
Amelia: So welcome to the podcast, Tara.
Tara: Thank you for having me.
Amelia: You and I, we met via the Fair Play Method’s Facilitator community where you're very active. And one of the things I enjoy about you is how informed and honest and transparent you are both about the work that you do and your personal journey in the care space.
Tara: Thank you.
Amelia: So I'd love for you to just tell folks a little bit about yourself and how you came to this work.
Tara: Definitely. So it's been a journey, like everything. I actually, before I kind of entered into the space, the care space, if you will, I actually spent 11 years in technology as a leader in sales. And I feel very grateful for that experience because I got to connect with so many different people, so many different women in different phases of their life and their career. And one of the common themes that just kept popping up is that women needed more support to be able to care for the people that they loved, including themselves. And so that kind of always stuck with me and it kept kind of pulling me and I finally in 2021 decided to really listen to that pull and went forward and got my coaching certification.
So I started working as a coach, primarily partnering with females in heavily male dominated spaces because that is the world in which I came from. And then that introduced me to some new challenges, right? So many women were sharing with me during my coaching or coaching sessions that they were struggling because they were taking on the majority of the unpaid labor and childcare responsibility in their home. And so then that, you know, again, I got curious about that curiosity always tends to lead me in certain directions.
And that's how I got introduced to Fair Play. And then during that whole time I got married and was really thinking about starting my own family. So I wanted to make sure that I was building it into my personal life as well. So yeah, it's been a long journey and then I continue to learn and grow and I just focus on that curiosity and that's really what tends to lead me.
Amelia: Yeah, and I think that that's one of the reasons I'm attracted to you and talking with you because I hear you use two words that I often use. One is ‘curiosity’ and the other is ‘self-trust’ and learning to trust yourself. So we'll definitely head in that direction here in a moment.
So I love to start all of my conversations by getting curious. What did organization, whatever that means to you, look like during your child?
Tara: It's such - I'm so glad you asked this question because when I was a little girl, I would tell my parents that I wanted to be a professional organizer. Like that was the career that I made up in my head. And it was inspired by just falling in love with store display windows.
I loved how they told a story. I loved how all the little pieces were placed together and fit like in a puzzle. And so I would try to recreate store display windows in my bedroom, with my toys, with my stuffed animals, with my Barbies, everything had its place. And, and I don't know that that was a mirror - like that's not something that I remember my parents really - I mean our house was always tidy and things had their place, but I for some reason personally was very obsessed with this concept of organization. And another thing I remember back to is at Christmas time I was always the one responsible for organizing the presents.
So my mom would wrap them all and then she'd say, “Okay, Tara, it's time to put them under the tree.” And it was like my most favorite thing to do because I put them all together in a way that just fits. So that's what I think of when I think of the word ‘organized’ in my childhood.
Amelia: I love it. First off, I've never had a guest share that that was like an idea or a dream when they were little to become a professional organizer or that kind of work. And I love the connection with store windows as a listener, it just sounds so magical. And I think I can understand it on a deeper level. I get that. It makes total sense. I love it.
So several months ago, you launched a Substack. It's a newsletter called “Valuing Care,” where you advocate for broader attention toward issues involving care.
Tara: Yeah, thank you.
Amelia: And in one of your messages, you state that “care and connection are crucial to survival, but we don't make it [meaning care] easy in the US.” So I'd love for you to kind of define what the term ‘care’ means to you and why you think it's important for us all to have conversations around why work life and home life are forever intertwined.
Tara: Yes, thank you for quoting that and bringing up the Substack. So I guess simply put, care to me is defined as you know a way of meeting the needs of survival in a way that brings comfort and dignity. Because there, of course, is a bare minimum standard of care. And I think in my experiences, in my personal life and how I have interacted with people who have been in need of care, myself included, that when we just meet that bare minimum standard of care, it's not enough. And there is a lot of discomfort and sacrifice and suffering that comes with that version. And that's kind of like the version that we have learned to accept in our country or the version that is presented to us. Yeah.
Amelia: Yeah, it's almost a step beyond those basic needs of food, shelter, you know, it's that connection, the companionship. But taking it to the next level of really tapping into folks' deeper needs for connection, right?
Tara: Yes, yeah, exactly. And the Substack was really inspired by my experience supporting my mom as she went through a really scary illness at the beginning of this year. And I had already been very involved in care work as it related to stepping into parenthood.
And some of the lack of care support that we have around child care, paid family leave, maternal health. And then I was, you know, already very aware of advocating for those things. And then my life turned upside down and my mother became very sick. And I saw that there was also this extreme gap in caring for elderly and just people that are sick and ill and need help in our society.
Amelia: Yeah, so it's that broad spectrum of healthcare, of elder care, of caring for our young, our disabled. It's talking about what happens behind closed doors that we don't often make public. But then there's this kind of intersection between our lives at work and our lives at home, which I think is probably part of that care umbrella as well.
If you want to talk a little bit about, you know, coming from software, right? Like, what is this intersection? Because we think of them often as separate or we're trying to find some sort of balance, but it really is intertwined and almost codependent.
Tara: Totally. You know, as I think about this, I think it's always helpful to kind of go back to like personal examples that we can relate to. And I was thinking about, you know, I have had to have five knee operations on my left knee. And each one of those periods of time where I needed to recover after that surgery.
I had to have help. You know, the last one, I was in my mid-twenties and I was living on the third floor of an old apartment building in Boston. And I thankfully had a stepmother or have a stepmother who was willing to, and she's retired, was willing to care for me.
And at the time I was working full time for the software company that I worked for. I wasn't, you know, able to work, but I wasn't physically able to go into the office or maneuver up and down the stairs to get into my apartment. And so they were willing to make an accommodation for me to work from my parents' home for three months while I recovered. And I know that that's not, I think there are some industries that tend to be more lenient with that or willing to work around that.
But that's because I didn't need to physically be in an office, right? Like that's not possible for somebody who is delivering mail or working in retail or the food industry or healthcare, right? And so I recognized that I was very privileged and I was able to actually get the care that I needed.
One, I had somebody that was willing to help me with it. Two, I had a career where they were willing to, I didn't need to physically be in an office and they were willing to make accommodations. And three, right, like I was able to, because of the way that I operate, able to still perform at a level that was expected of me working at home. That wasn't a challenge, right? And so those three things all fit together, but that's so rare.
And so as I was reflecting on all of this, it's like, well, that can't be the, like, we can't expect that that's how it's going to play out, right? Like we actually have to have supports in place. So what if I didn't have my stepmom? What if I didn't have this, you know, career where I didn't need to be in the office? What if I didn't have the support of leadership and the willingness to work with me? What if I didn't have the executive functioning skills that I have, right? Like then what?
So I think relating it back to the personal experience that I had helped me to then identify where I needed to start advocating and getting curious around what would happen if that hadn't been my situation.
Amelia: Because for most folks that means either losing a job or not quite having the insurance benefits or like you said a family member or a friend who can take the time to be supportive. We don't have the best social network, the social safety net in the United States to support people at home when they need it. And that's so heartbreaking and heart wrenching.
Tara: Right. It is. And it's, it's, I've actually been hearing, you know, more and more stories where people have, have the ability to step out of their paid work to care give, whether it is becoming a new parent, or caring for an elderly loved one or a sick loved one. And they had that ability, but then they're like you said, once they step back into paid work, there is no safety net and there is an expectation that they will be able to immediately pick up where they left off.
And specifically in the sales industry where I spend a lot of time because that's where my background is, that is a very harmful expectation to have because that means that for however long they were out, they were unable to be building like a pipeline to be able to sell into and to expect them to be able to hit the same milestones and quotas and expectations that someone could hit that had been in the workplace for that period of time is just unrealistic.
And women specifically, because they are stepping out for parental leave are being or put on performance plans because they can't meet those requirements. And so it's just, there's so many different avenues we could explore and go down that touch on how a lack of real systemic support around caregiving impacts people. But that's just one that I have been hearing and that has been coming up more and more in my conversations with people.
Amelia: Yeah, there are gaps that inevitably occur even though the employee doesn't want that to happen, doesn't expect for that to happen. They just need a shift in priorities, to focus attention for a short while and want to return to their same position. And I would love to kind of move us towards this topic of this dynamic care at home, needing to take time from work to care for another person, right? It's invisible.
Tara: Mm-hmm.
Amelia: It's invisible work, we're only beginning to talk about it. And when something isn't visible, it can't be valued by our communities, our society at large. And I would love to just talk for a moment about bringing men into this conversation and why that's necessary. And then we can kind of talk about how it shows up in your personal life and what brought you to Fair Play.
Tara: Yeah, think, you know, men have to be a part of this conversation because so many men are in positions of power, right? And they are going to play a critical role in creating the systemic structural support to actually help us make care visible, make care valuable, right? And I think that how we bring them into the conversation is really important. You know, I will be the first to admit that when I first introduced the Fair Play method to my partner, to my husband, Nick, you know, I did it in a way that was filled with anger, right? And frustration, which is valid, you know, and that's what I want to say. Like those feelings, if you read Fair Play and you are triggered and you feel validated, like that is the point.
And it well, you know, I wish it wasn't, but for so many people, that is the experience that they have when reading that book. and just this collective, like, frustration for women in general and the things that we have to endure in our lifetime. However, we bring my experience when I brought that energy to how I introduced the concept and the method to my husband, his reaction to that, which is just how we react as humans, was defensiveness and confusion and “Wait, I thought things were really good and you loved me and like, thought you felt like things were going smoothly,” you know, and it didn't pan out in the way that I had hoped it to.
And so I think when we think about this, introducing men or bringing men into the overall care conversation in general, we have to kind of apply that same lens that like, hey, for whatever it is, like this is not the experience - specifically white men I'm talking about because that's who, you know, is in my family - that I would be introducing some information to this like this too, have not had the same lived experience as women, just like I have not had the same lived experience as a black woman, right? Like it is very important for me to understand that lived experience.
So I think we just have to accept that they don't know what they don't know, but we can, and I know it's more labor on us, right? But we can help to introduce them to some of these experiences that women have holistically to bring them into helping us.
Amelia: Yeah, it's both meeting them, our male partners, where they are and helping them see the benefits of engaging in this dialogue and how it shows up with their colleagues at work, how it shows up in your individual household as well. It's almost opening eyes to like, all of the spaces in which care shows up and not just immediately saying things need to change, which is that resentment, the anger, the very valid feelings, but using those elements of negotiation to say like, “Hey, let's talk through this and it may take some time,” but the more you see it, once you see it, you can't unsee it in the workplace and in individual families. So how do you… Go ahead.
Tara: Yeah. I'm actually reading, I was just gonna expand on that really quick. I'm actually reading Rose Hackman's Emotional Labor right now. And my partner, Nick and I, oftentimes in the evening after we put our daughter down to bed, we will, he, well, it's football season right now, so he will watch football and I will read on the couch and we'll just kind of sit side by side.
And we've started to kind of build this routine or habit in that if I find something interesting that he may be interested in learning, I'll ask him like, “Hey, is the game intense right now?” Like, you know, I'll check in with him. “Is this a good time for me to read a little excerpt to you that we can either just park and discuss later, or if you feel like you want to chat about it a little bit now, like we can do that.” And that's just become now a part of the way that we interact. And it hasn't always been like that, but it's really powerful. And so I've been reading a couple of excerpts from the book to him recently, and it sparked some really powerful conversation and I think a deeper understanding than he realized he could grasp of the female experience.
Amelia: Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that because we often assume that our partners see things the way we do or pick up on the same cues or are coming from the same perspective. And there's a little bit of surprise when they're blind to the topic as a whole. And I love that you're able to just put that topic between the two of you on the table like, one of the Fair Play cards and say, like, “What do you think about this? How does it touch you? How would you respond? What comes up for you?”
So any examples for how you share the mental load perhaps around parenting in your household?
Tara: Yeah. Well, again, I think we are unique. I'm very grateful for the way that we share the mental load. And I know that it was orchestrated by us intentionally because of my work with Fair Play and because of the fact that we really do love each other and want there to be as little frustration and resentment as possible in our relationship. But it took time.
Personally, we struggled with infertility. And so we knew that we wanted to start a family well before we actually had our daughter. And I think during that time, because we had that experience and lots of opportunity to chat through things, how we wanted to show up as parents, what we wanted parenthood to look like. We were introduced to Fair Play at that time and were able to start to put some of the, well, all of the principles in place, right? So for those of the listeners who are unfamiliar, when you practice Fair Play in your family, you know, when someone holds on to a task, they own the full conception, planning and execution of that task. And so that's just how we operate.
And we also had the privilege of my husband having three months of paid family medical leave. Once my daughter was born, I did not, I had no paid leave because I own my own business. We had to make some really tough decisions financially around how we would make that work. My husband and I took two months together with our daughter, and then I took three additional months with her after that, and then he took one month by himself. So he, from the birth, was involved in everything for her - so bathing, clothing, diapers, diaper rash, bottles, every single thing he did feeding in the night, like everything - because we bottle fed my daughter in a lot of cases. So I think that set us up from the very beginning with that expectation that if you were going to jump into a task and own a task, you were truly going to own the conception, the plan and the execution of it. So we both needed to know how to do that for everything in our household.
Amelia: It sounds like it was a very conscious decision, and I imagine a bumpy one as well because, you know, for everyone listening, stepping into Fair Play, you'll encounter lots of bumps and mistakes and challenges and all of those things. It's not always a smooth ride, even if the decision I'm sure is a conscious one.
Tara: Yeah. Totally. And I will say too, I think one of the things that made it, I guess, smoother was that we started to implement it before we had a child. So we had a solid six months of being really familiar with the concepts of Fair Play six months before our daughter was born. So, you know, I think it's really, it is hard enough to be bringing a new human into your life with no sleep, you know, you're jumping into totally new territory. That is hard enough. I couldn't imagine us also trying to start practicing some of the, or the method of, of Fair Play during that period of time. I just, I can't imagine it. but we didn't have to. And so for any of your listeners who are pregnant or thinking about starting a family, now is the time. I would say the sooner the better.
Amelia: Before those additional 40 cards show up on your plate. For sure.
Tara: Yes, right. Yes, because then you can make mistakes. That's when we had all those really tough conversations right about like “Why do you load the dishwasher this way,” you know? “Why is it so important that the laundry is folded this way” and then we decided right if there were things that we couldn't let go of, we just owned that card right like we just owned that and that was okay. We also got to experiment, right?
Like my husband started experimenting taking on weeknight meals. He likes to cook. And so we started to see, “How does that work? How did that feel?” And it worked. And so he has done that for almost three years now, you know? And so it's just like, I feel like we had more space and time to fail and to fumble before our daughter was in the picture.
Amelia: I think that's very valuable for folks to hear for sure. So let's shift gears a little bit. We have just been through one of the most volatile election cycles on record. And you are an active member of the nonpartisan group, the Chamber of Mothers. And you brought a chapter to New Hampshire.
Tara: Mm-hmm.
Amelia: You've been to Capitol Hill to advocate for legislation, and you've even worked on an AI-powered chat bot to encourage folks to identify their personal values and understand which candidates are aligned. So give us a quick overview of what the Chamber of Mothers is and why you've decided it's a great use of your time, attention and energy.
Tara: Great question. So the Chamber of Mothers is like as you mentioned a nonpartisan 501c3 nonprofit organization. It is a national organization, but we have chapters in almost all I think 35 of the 50 states now and expanding to every state hopefully very soon and we advocate for three core pillars, paid family medical leave for all, affordable and accessible childcare, and improved maternal health outcomes. And when I think about improving the support that mothers, parents need, those three core pillars match where I personally want to see things improve. And I think that if we have improved systems and structures in place that align with those three pillars, the whole world, even if you're not immediately touched or impacted by those three things, will have benefits. And so that is why, yeah.
Amelia: It goes back, yeah, it goes back to our original bit of our conversation talking about the value of care and how it really impacts all of us either directly or indirectly. Those three things are that social support safety net foundation that would allow folks to get what they need, even if it's not happening privately. You would no longer have to depend on private resources. There would be elements available to you. So please continue.
Tara: Right.
Yeah. Yeah. It's like we could dissect, you know, each one of those pillars, you know, I'm just thinking about maternal health, like where, where it starts, right? So many women live in places that are defined as maternal health deserts, right? So they don't even have maternal health care near to where they live. That in and of itself is such a problem, right? And then access to midwifery care, right, which we know improves the experience of birth and the, you know, making sure that moms are healthy and staying alive during childbirth. Access to that is not, you know, widespread everywhere.
Then when you think about, you know, just options for care, right? Not everybody wants to give birth in a hospital, but that is not an, you know, some people want to give birth at home. That is not an option for everyone, right? Like there's just so many things that are connected to maternal health that just are not in place today that really can make the maternal health experience very challenging for a lot of different women. And then once you have your baby, in so many cases, mothers are having to return back to work because they do not - we do not - have a paid family medical leave policy in place while they are still bleeding. Right? It's like, and then not to mention, you know, I think it's the statistic that even when men have access to paid family leave, only 23 % of men are taking that full leave. So it speaks to the societal viewpoint on how we value care and what men's role is actually supposed to be, which is going back to work and providing versus supporting his family and his wife or partner, birthing parent. And so there's that gap too.
And if we had paid family medical leave, so many women would be able to care for their new baby in the way that they want to. And then if they want to return back to the workplace on their terms when they were ready and have no, well, we would hope, limited to no financial impact around that because they had job security, they were still in their role, they would be able to be promoted.
All of those things, like there are massive costs to while so many women want to step out and care for their babies, right? In doing so without the structures in place that we need today, so many of them have to actually leave the workplace, which then sets them back financially so drastically. I don't even think we really talk about that that often.
And then when you are ready to, you know, step into the workplace, whether you were given paid family leave or not, being able to access childcare is impossible. And in all 50 states, it's more than the average cost of rent. So how, you know, it's like, I guess when I break it down like that, it's like, how could I not be advocating for these three things when they just have such massive impacts on the experience that parents are having and then grandparents too because so many people are having to piece together care and you know for those who even have access to grandparents who would be able to care that's a lot to put on someone who may not want to be doing that with their life or you know so my gosh I could go on and on…
Amelia: Yeah, no, I think you did a beautiful job of showing how all three parts are interconnected as well as touch on our lives so directly because not everyone chooses to be a parent, but that's important - it’s impacting your colleagues, the structure of your team at work, as you said, multi-generational dynamics. And when costs rise in one area, they rise in another area. And it's all draining from, you know, we're pushing and pulling on budgets that impact all of us. So…
Tara: Yes. Yep. Yes. And not to mention the economic impact, right? Like when people are being forced out of the workplace if they want to be in there, but they can't because they need to take on caregiving responsibilities, they have less money to put back into our economy, which then impacts everyone. Parents really are having to ask themselves questions like, “Can we afford another child? Can we afford this?” And so that has impacts as well.
Amelia: So critical, so critical. Thank you for sharing a bit about the Chamber of Mothers and letting folks know that that's a resource that they may be able to access if this work is calling to them. And again, it's a nonpartisan group. So this is about the health and well-being of all of us, not about politics.
Tara: Yes. And research does really show that those three issues, improved maternal health, paid family medical leave, and affordable and accessible childcare, both sides of the aisle value and see those as issues that need to improve.
Amelia: So now that we've kind of opened the door, I want to say to these big topics, it's time for us to kind of close our conversation.
Tara, what is one creative way perhaps that you employ organization now as an adult? Because it sounds like there are many things happening in your life, both professionally and personally.
Tara: Well, you know, I have to say that technology really does play a huge role in my organization. I think that having a background in software helps with that because I'm familiar and comfortable with technology. So some of the tools that really keep me organized are Evernote. All of my notes and my tasks in Evernote and I keep those updated constantly every single day. And then for calendar management, I use a tool called Agenda Hero that allows me to basically take all the unstructured date and time information that I receive from everywhere and instantly create calendar invites because Google Calendar is another one of my organizational tools, right? If it's not on my calendar, it does not exist. It just doesn't, you know? Yeah. Yes.
Amelia: And I'm sure you share with your partner, like this is transparent in the household as well.
Tara: 100%. So we both have a shared calendar that we access. And depending on who is responsible for what task, like whatever it is, you know, my husband owns Vivian's daycare events. So when an email comes through, about you know, like “pajama day” or like a picnic or something, he owns that. So he knows that he has to get that on the calendar when it comes through and he uses Agenda Hero to do that. I think that's really like technology. I see technology as we are kind of evolving as a society, being actually a part of this village concept, right? It's like we can rely or I choose to rely on in some ways to take out the manual labor of keeping track of things and staying organized. That's kind of how I stay organized.
Amelia: Yeah, so cool. And yes, everybody has their different levels of comfort with technology. But speaking with you, it shows that it is possible to lean into that and rely on it and that it can be a successful tool, a set of tools to really help with household management, life management, all of these things.
Tara: Yes. So much, right? So much to stay on top of.
Amelia: So thank you so much for chatting with me, Tara. I would love for you to share how folks can subscribe to your Substack, “Valuing Care” and learn about your leadership development services and coaching and connect with you.
Tara: Thank you.
Yes, thank you. Please, like if you are familiar with Substack, please find me. It's “Valuing Care.” I would love for you to subscribe and follow along. I also am active on my Instagram channel, which you can link. I don't know if you have show notes, but it's infinity and I spelled it. It's like “infinity,” but I spelled it with D-E-I at the end for diversity, equity, and inclusion, because I think we all have the ability to reach our infinite potential, but only if we are in places that encourage diversity, equity, and inclusion. So you can follow along there, LinkedIn. I'm all over the place. So please reach out to me anywhere.
Amelia: Sounds good. Thanks again.
Tara: Thank you. Have a great day.
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